Return of my long-lost Car Wars countermix

Literally decades ago - probably almost 30 years ago now - I introduced a few of my gamers to Car Wars, Deluxe Edition. We played a game. Afterward, I left my whole countermix out on a table on top of the folded-up board from the Dungeon boardgame in the basement. Sometime later - the next day, maybe? - I went down to sort out my counters instead of having them all in one big pile.

They were gone. Nowhere to be found. I searched high and low, and found the Dungeon board on the table, but no counters. All gone.

I searched for quite a while, but assumed they'd been accidentally thrown out during some other cleanup in the basement.

So I literally replaced my entire collection to get a countermix. I found a Car Wars lot on Noble Knight and bought it. Deluxe Car Wars, Dueltrack, etc. I replaced a few map-and-counter supplements, too.

Flash forward to yesterday. I was cleaning out my comics collection, and one by one pulling bags from the comic long boxes and seeing what collection was in each. In one bag, along with a mix of comics, was a weird lumpy mass at the bottom of the oversized bag.

In it was my old countermix.

How it got there, I have no idea. Did someone in my family pour it into the bag and I didn't notice as I put comics in it?

We had cats. Was it possible one sat on the board, dumped the contents into the comics box and therefore the open bag? I used to keep my bagged comics right near my gaming table.

Did I put them away in that bag and complete forgot about it right away?

I have no idea.

But now, decades after my last game of DCW, I have two full countermixes. It's definitely my old countermix - I'd glued wrecks to the back of their unwrecked cars, colored a few favorite black and white counters with colored pencils, and otherwise customized things. And here it is.

Weird.

My replacement mix, sorted, and my old, unsorted mix:

Er, anyone for DCW-era Car Wars?

Felltower is All About Consensus

"Felltower is all about Safety" - Ulf, who died in Felltower

Riffing off of that, I'll say that Felltower is all about consensus.

One benefit of a pick-up, large-player-pool bounded sandbox game can be individually set goals. You see this in the West Marches:

Players send emails to the list saying when they want to play and what they want to do. A normal scheduling email would be something like “I’d like to play Tuesday. I want to go back and look for that ruined monastery we heard out about past the Golden Hills. I know Mike wants to play, but we could use one or two more. Who’s interested?” Interested players chime in and negotiation ensues. Players may suggest alternate dates, different places to explore (“I’ve been to the monastery and it’s too dangerous. Let’s track down the witch in Pike Hollow instead!”), whatever — it’s a chaotic process, and the details sort themselves out accordingly. In theory this mirrors what’s going on in the tavern in the game world: adventurers are talking about their plans, finding comrades to join them, sharing info, etc.

This is not how Felltower works.

For Felltower, it works this way:

1) GM and players decide on the next game date. This used to mean the next time at least a few people and I could play, but now means the next time almost everyone can make the game.

2) Sometimes by email, but usually on the game day itself, the players discuss what to do.

3) Verify with the GM that this is ready to go.

4) If 3 is satisfied, play. If not, go back to step 2.

We almost never have individual-led expeditions as described in the West Marches game. We don't get a lot of, "I want to sack the Black Library on 8/4. Who's coming?" and lot more "We're playing 8/4 and everyone except (these two PCs) can play. Where should we go?"

That was not how it was designed, though.

Originally, it went like this:

1) GM decides on the next day game can be run, with input from the players (since one of them hosted game.)

2) Anyone who can come, does come.

3) Players decide what to do.

4) Play.

It's a difference that has led to a much more traditionally style of game. We play when everyone's around, game frequency has dropped off as real-life concerns are compounded by the perceived need / desire to have almost everyone there, play is purely cooperative (no one is trying to raid location X without cutting everyone else in), and the game has grown more tolerant of multi-session delves.

Some of that is Felltower itself at this point - there are less hanging tag ends to pull on. Or at least, less that the players see and perceive as a potential way to get loot without dying. But it's been a consistent theme since early on. It's decision by consensus, not individually led sessions. PCs don't start as somewhat trepidatious weaker delvers and, as they grow stronger, branch out into individual goals and individual delves. Instead, they start out as somewhat trepidatious weaker delvers and grow into stronger, more and more group-oriented delvers. Regardless of how powerful they become, they continue to work together as a group and make decisions about delving as a group.

There are pros and cons, of course.

The pros are largely convivial play amongst the players. We don't have a lot of in-party conflict because we have players who either started as friends, or became so because of the game. It's almost always fun, no matter the result of the game, because everyone gets along. This pro doesn't take long to write out, but make no mistake - this is huge. Anyone who has played with That Guy knows that not having That Guy makes for a better experience. It's why I recruit friends, not gamers, into the game. At least gaming group has spun off from my group, with players who met playing Felltower (or the previous game I ran.)

But it does have downsides.

The main downside to consensus is that everyone in my group generally has to agree on a task. Or at least, not be opposed to it. So preferred play style / play tolerance dictates actions. We have at least one player who vociferously objects to purely exploratory or preperatory sessions. No filling in the map or just checking out some side areas or making sure of some half-checked areas. Bold delve or no delve. So when that player is around, those things can't happen . . . so they generally don't. We have some risk-averse players, who'd rather a sure thing than a long shot, and so that cuts out some high-risk high-reward options. There are others, too - some players are just either not interesed in mid-week email-based planning (or Discord based, assuming they're still using their Discord channel), or don't have time for it. So delves that require some planning don't get planned, and the "no pure planning sessions" guy won't spend Sunday on that, and the "no risk" guys won't go without planning because it's too risky, and no one seems to plan by email because they need full consensus to go.

One reason the last session's delve into the Brotherhood Complex had all of two hirelings - I don't think they even tried to hire Darkspire - was because I didn't have any more set up in the VTT. I didn't make any because no one affirmatively declared they'd go and hire them, and I don't do prep work for PC-centric actions like that on a maybe. Why didn't anyone declare affirmatively they'd hire them, even with a caveat of "when we go, which isn't decided yet*"? I do not know, but I think it's connected to this idea of consensus. Everyone didn't agree this was a thing to be done, so no one did it.

It even has some direct "off limits" results for Felltower. Black library? Not with a cleric, because they'll burn the books, but not without a cleric, because you need healing and curse mitigation. No dragons, because not everyone is on board for risking a grounded fight against a flying monster. I'm partly sure we lost one player because the whole "yes you have to roll for every door" style of play of Felltower annoyed him, and no one wanted to spend the time - least of all him - to knock down doors or fix broken entrances and such to make that a non-issue.

The game has changed as a result. It's still supportable, but it has had consequences. Less gaming sessions overall - a month with two game sessions is a good month. It used to be standard. It's not uncommon to miss a whole month. Players used to complain about how long it took to special order items and get enchantments done, but now they complain about lack of funds more - time between sessions is longer so the first is less of an issue but it takes big hauls each of the delves to net the same cash over time. More concern about TPKs and dead PCs, because losses are a more significant given less actual time to play and way a fallen PC falls out of a niche. Groups come together more as "What do we need?" and less as "I have a character idea." It resembles a lot more Session 0 in a traditional game than a pure pickup game would.

So concensus isn't all a bad thing - it does mean more player enjoyment and better cohesion as a group. But it does affect how Felltower is played.


* I'm still not doing the prep just in case, so it better be damn firm before I spend my non-session time loading up a bunch of NPCs and tokens and so on on a maybe. It's annoying work at best and wasted time consumption at worst. I'll do it when I have to.

Thoughts & Links for 9/27/2024

Thoughts and links for Friday.

- Revolt on Antares arrived. It's nice to have the whole countermix together again.

- Bleh, Felltower has gone monthly-ish. Next game is a few weeks from now.

- I'm starting to go through my old comics collection, to see what I want to keep and what I want to sell off. I have some issues of the Forgotten Realms comics. No idea how many yet, but I'll post here once I know what I have in case someone has interest in them. If I get rid of them, probably a bunch of Conan Saga magazine-sized might go on the goodbye pile.

- Not sure how I missed this - piling on monsters. I play this way.

- I think my player andi would have a shot at this Art Contest.

Revolt on Antares - repurchased

I had to do it. I finally got a new copy of Revolt on Antares, one of my favorite TSR minigames.

I have the rulebook, probably have the map . . . somewhere . . . and have some of the counters. I potentially could have kit-bashed a playable version. But I figured, what the heck, Noble Knight had a complete copy.

I can't wait to play it again, and this time, keep all of the pieces together. I'm not as prone to sloppy counter keeping as I was as a pre-teen.

Felltower & Brotherhood Complex Notes 9/22/24

Back in August, I wrote the following to my players:

"Going to the Brotherhood Complex is fine, but:

1) If it's not in current use, it'll be a lot of exploration to see what you can find.

2) If it is in current use, it'll be a straight-up fight against organized, intelligent foes . . . so you can't get away with what got you mauled the first time (blundering into a large fight without being ready for it) or killed the second time (boxing yourself in.) It's an assault on an enemy complex, not a room-by-room exploration of a megadungeon with small areas controlled by small groups you can pick off as you please.

As long as you're okay with the possibility of #1, and ready for #2, I'm game for it."

A little discussion after that resulted in the following:

- My suggestion that the PCs get hirelings in actual numbers. Vic put it as a "10 good men" kind of thing. Probably a few more, but yes.

- There was a suggestion of finding folks who hate the Black Brotherhood to come along.

- I pointed out that there would be loot, for sure, with intelligent foes, but getting reinforcements would be costly.

At the moment, the PCs are in a large fight I'm not 100% sure they're ready for, and not quite boxed in but cut off from the exit. The enemy is between them and the exit, and the probable path of additional enemy reinforcements is also into that same area.

We'll see how it goes . . . but I just wanted it on the record that I made it clear what the Brotherhood Complex would entail and we discussed what it would benefit from.


This, though, is also the current problem in Felltower. 12 years now of exploration of - largely - 4-5 levels, often over and over again - has cleared out most of the things that can be picked off without any complications. Most of that picking off was done in the first 3 years. So much so that I needed to launch a new side dungeon in March 2015 and another in September 2015 to allow for weaker delvers to have places to go. So much so that I had to do a pause and restock twice, including recently while the PCs dealt first with one side area and then another.

Much of the problem with Felltower, now, is that you can't just go and wipe out some hapless foes with no friends and lots of treasure.

The dragon in the caves below the gate level is next to a beholder, so it's not clear how to deal with one without having to deal with the other in some way. The six-fingered vampires - the Gith, as the players have named them - guard their areas with magical defenses the PCs can't just avoid and will respond to incursions in force. The gates lead to places with similar issues - raiding the apes might work but they're not going to go down house by house without responding in numbers. No one wants to go to the "Hell Gate" and the Air Gate is still being pushed back because, athough people can now fly, they don't have tactical flight so they can't fight airborne* and don't seem willing to risk what happens against flyers.

Even the unguarded areas - like the ruined city on the bottom of the second GFS - are just going to be exceedingly dangerous. It's a fine place to explore but they're scaled for PCs who can handle the stuff above.

All of the remaining areas present more of a thought challenge than a power challenge - they'll take some clever and thoughful play, I think, to defeat them. You'll need power, too, but the usual delving rhythm of "door, lure the foe into a bad spot, kill it, loot it, rest and recover, repeat" isn't going to be valid anymore. It hasn't been in a while, but against orcs and puddings and gargoyles and the like, the lopsided power of the delvers vs. the foes made up for it.

I suspect this is why a lot of megadungeon plan can peter out. Not from boredom, but from challenges that are different from what people are ready to solve and a limit on what you can do to advance your cause. The way of playing might need to change, or I need to basically toss the levels below the ones explored already, and just keep filling in monsters unable to coordiante in order to keep it going. I'm a little too stubborn and lazy for that, though. I constructed some challenges to require more than just brute force and killing foes in isolation. I'm wondering if those being the blockers to other areas have effectively put Felltower and its related areas into an adapt-or-end-the-campaign situation.

Hopefully this will be useful for my players as a glimpse at the forest and not just the trees. If it's of general interest, too, and help to GMs with their own long-running megadungeon games, that's good, too.

* If people are waiting to accumulate enough magic to have cheap, effective, reliable, tactical combat flight . . . better take Breath Control. Letting a party become a group of routine free flyers changes the game substantially, and turns all fights with non-flyers into a bit of a joke. So don't expect to see that handed out.

Random Bits for 9/20/2024

- you know if it's Star Frontiers I'm interested. Volturnus race stats.

I like it, although I stand by my criticism of Volturnus. I feel like it would be such a good later adventure, for a group already used to civilization and now plunged into wilderness survival. Oh well.

- I'm intrigued by the rules for Victory in Europe. It's a three-sided game, with the Soviets, Western Allies, and Germany as the three sides. But to prevent the Germans from just hunkering down arounnd Berlin and riding the game out, there are permanent penalties to your combat and reinforcement abilities if you let go of different areas. Abandoning Norway or southern Germany or what have you may seem good on paper, but they come with costs that make holding the rest harder. It's a pretty cool mechanical idea - military tactics may call for tightening up your lines but political necessity may require you to hold on to everything you can . . . and this helps reinforce that.

- Octopus Carnival talks playing around with GURPS combat flow.

- And I'm busy playing around with the VTT a bit to see how I can upload my Felltower maps . . . but still no luck. My levels are too big for 1-yard hexes and the limits of Foundry.

Fun Bits from Last Session

A few fun bits from last session:

- I have the Brotherhood Complex fully mapped out in the VTT. So people can just click and drag themselves around willy-nilly. And they did. PCs got seperated, NPCs lagged here and there, and so on. It was fun.

Especially fun is that, just like Belmak Battlebeard in their last group to hit this area, Thor became Thor Doorsbane, and ran around opening every door he could. Even when other PCs weren't quite down with opening a door, too late, he was there and rolling Forced Entry. There is a lot more impulsive stuff going on when everyone can just move and do on their own.

- We have dragons at home. The players talked about going after a dragon last session, including the one they spotted at the lake in the Lost City of D'Abo. Chop shot that down, saying, basically, we have a dragon in Felltower, we don't have to go all the way to the Lost City to fight a dragon.

- In a less fun bit, flaming swords suck to GM. I have to and manually add 2 injury, burning, as a followup, to every foe hit. There must be a better way . . . and that +2 injury is nice but, geez, it's often on top of 30-40 injury and barely relevant.